HIGH INCOME: fact or fiction?

misguided_will · Rookie Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 2 Location: Sydney

hi all..

wondering if anyone can clarify how much being a GP or specialist REALLY makes. i'm sure there are some of you who have parents or family who are doctors.

i've read the below figured thrown around...

GP $200k-300k (or thereabouts)

Specialist $300-500k (or thereabouts)

my questions are:

how many hours are they working to get this? i assume it's not a working 9-5 and a 5 day week.

how much experience do they have? apparently the 200k+ figure is for GPs aged 45 which is their prime. but when does the average doctor become a GP?

personal reward and fulfilment aside, how lucrative financial is the profession?

Botany88 · Rookie Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Brisbane

If you're in it for the money, then good luck to you. I don't really think it matters. Doctors of all types are paid well enough to live in adequate standards - isn't that what counts?

Lovebite · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:26 pm Post subject:

If you are primarily interested in money, try real estate development.

JasonV · Rookie Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 9

You see that line at the bottom of the first post? It says: "Personal reward and fulfilment aside, how lucrative, financially, is the profession?" (I corrected some of it)

Not once did this person say that he or she was "only in it for the money". It's the same all over the Internet: prospective doctors are vilified just for asking a question that every one of us have considered in some way, at some point in time. So don't saddle your high horses and start waving your morality-coated riding crops just because someone is curious.

Unfortunately, misguided_will, I don't have any incite into the earnings of GPs, so I can't provide you with an answer, but hopefully someone who isn't preoccupied with spouting stock-standard replies will.

Lovebite · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject:

Well, pardon me if I don't get a little concerned when someone's second post is to ask how 'lucrative' medicine is as a profession.

At the end of the day, you will earn enough money to live relatively comfortably.... we all know this without asking. Why do you really want to know an exact figure?

It is also common for people with dollar signs in their heads to consider medicine for purely financial reasons, but I believe that this would be a mistake, and anecdotally these kinds of people wash out awfully fast.

Its a bloody long road before the money starts to get 'good'. I don't think you should expect to be looking at BMWs for a long long time, and if one was to be motivated by money (I dare not suggest our original poster is...) then the lure of the lucre will be very little comfort in the 8-12 year slog from start to fellowship.

The short answer is you wont be broke.... But the message behind it is, that if you need to earn a certain $$ amount to make the decision to study medicine, then you might want to examine whether its medicine or its money that you really want?

JasonV · Rookie Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 9

I just don't think it's a good idea to jump to conclusions as soon as the word "money" is uttered by a prospective doctor. It's entirely possible that the topic poster is just after a hefty paycheck; I just wouldn't make an assumption either way. And, as you said, anyone primarily concerned with the financial benefits of being a doctor will be weeded out by some hurdle along the way.

So I apologise if my response was a little strong, but it's become a far too common reaction across the Internet these days.

jezzi123 · Regular Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 16

I am currently a Registered Nurse considering the GAMSAT.
No, money should not be the driving force behind someone wanting to study medicine. But since society has placed such a high esteem on medicine and has marketed it as a prestigious wealthy career, the question will eventually come up.

Some average wages that I have discussed with doctors: Intern BASE salary in adelaide where i live (considerably lower than somewhere such as queensland) is around 50 - 55k a year. However I have also heard of some interns doing copius amounts of overtime (working 20 days straight) and taking home a 7k fotnightly pay.

Public setcor emergency consultants depending on years could be somewhere from 110k on.

I have also been told that a GP who owns two practices is earning a comfortable 500k pa. And a gp working in one of those practices three days a week can survive on 130k

These figures are just what I have heard from various people and I am not claiming that they are entirely accurate but they give a rough idea.

I think if money was purely the only thing enticing someone into medicine then they would be very unhappy. Getting to the "lucrative" stage requires motivation for what you do. But if medicine IS what you are passionate about AND you also want to make a bit of money then it is possible.

Just my thoughts

Jekyll123 · Rookie Joined: 21 Mar 2009 Posts: 1

My friend was a doctor out in rural queensland about 100 kms west of toowoomba. 3rd year out, and she was paid a wage from qld health for being on call for the town hospital and her wage from the private practice. Housing was free and she earned around 200 - 230 K a year. My brother is an intern at the PA in Brisbane and is on about 4000 a fortnight because of the overtime he does.

Ill be doing it for the money. Wont be the ONLY reason but if the pay was crap they can shove it up their arse.

Those people who get on their high horse can get right back off it and concern yourself with passing your test rather than convincing other people not to do it. Smile

Lovebite · Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject:

jezzi123 · Regular Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 16

dave88 · Rookie Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 2

To answer the first question I have used the ‘Career FAQ’s: Medicine’ handbook which provides a good explanation to most of the basic questions like the one above.

According to the authors this is what you can expect:
Intern- $60,000-$65,000 (including overtime, etc)
First yr resident- $45,000-$55,000 (plus overtime)
Senior resident- $70,000 (plus overtime)
Registrars- $60,000-$80,000 (plus overtime)
Senior registrars- $80,000-$90,000 (plus overtime)
Staff specialists - $100,000-$130,000
GP in private practice- $100,000-$250,000
Specialists in private practice- $120,000-$600,000
Medical researchers- $60,000-$150,000

But now let me vent, the reality is that the road to being a specialist is simply one of the hardest there is. We work out butts off while we do our first degree, then study like hell for the GAMSAT for not much more then the privilege of a 15min interview, where, if successful, we get the do another 4 years of study that makes our effort in the first degree look like child’s play. Then its yet another 10yr before we get our fellowship.
The reality is that we spend up to 15yr studying before we become a specialist, study upwards of 15 hours a day, have no life outside of the hospital, and at times will need to make some of the biggest calls that can be asked of someone. For this we will absolutely be paid well above the average, but will also need to spend more then the average Australian income on insurance because after we save our patients life they could sue us for having broken their ribs while we were doing chest compressions.

The way I see it is if we are smart enough to be a doctor we’re are smart enough to get into IT, there we would only be studying for 3-4yr before going into the workforce where we would earn the same as a specialist, we would have a life away from work and would be working the typical 9-5 hours.

I am not accusing anyone on this forum (apart from those the openly admit money is their sole, or main reason for doing med) for choosing med for the wrong reasons. But personally I believe, if anyone is in it simply for the money its not fair on yourself or your future patients, you could easily find easier and more lucrative carriers then medicine. Without a true passion I don’t think anyone could give what would be required to be a good Dr.

yahvinah · Rookie Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 6 Location: Melbourne

To the peope who immediately chastised, I say bull crap, everyone of us has thought about the earnings at some point, and it is a fair question because it can be difficult information to come across. Also in the process of imagining yourself in your dream occupation, you will always try to get as much detail as possible, I sometimes even wonder abot the specific classes I will be faced with and how I will wear my hair and how I would dress when it is all said and done. haha

as far as the amounts quoted above this post, they seem a little low, infact extremely low, considering how many hours are actually required. perhaps that is after taxes and insurance costs.

And as far as the IT comment, there are plenty of people who are guns in IT, and other "easier" fields, but you would have to be blind not to know about the economic crisis we are facing, and the shortages of jobs. I have met people who have started their own big time software development firms, and all of the work has dried up. So job security is a huge factor to take in to consideration. Something that doctors have, provided they aren't prone to gigantic screw ups.

dave88 · Rookie Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 2

Yahvinah

“To the peope who immediately chastised, I say bull crap, everyone of us has thought about the earnings at some point, and it is a fair question because it can be difficult information to come across.”
Yes that is exactly why the above information is provided.

“as far as the amounts quoted above this post, they seem a little low, infact extremely low”
here is the full reference so you can have a look for yourself:
Williams M 2006, Career FAQs: Medicine, Career FAQs Pty Ltd, Australia, p. 27.

“considering how many hours are actually required”
thus the second half of my post, people often overestimate how much doctors earn, overall, yes they can earn a considerable salary, but if you look at a per hour basis, e.g how much a Dr would earn in say 40 hours, it is greatly reduced. This is also my reasoning for the second half of my post, and further proves my point that medicine is a labor of love and not for the money hungry.

“perhaps that is after taxes and insurance costs.”
The figure provided it before tax and insurance, never the less, it is a considerable income, there are not too many professions that can walk out of uni earning $60,000-$65,000.

“but you would have to be blind not to know about the economic crisis we are facing, and the shortages of jobs.”
I would appreciate it if personal comments were kept to a minimum, I provided the facts I had.

“and the shortages of jobs. I have met people who have started their own big time software development firms, and all of the work has dried up. So job security is a huge factor to take in to consideration. Something that doctors have, provided they aren't prone to gigantic screw ups.”
We are entering a recession, for people to loose jobs is expected, and this will happen across the board. Public hospitals (where we will be until we pass our fellowship exams) like every other public service have a budget, this will mean that the number of interns, residents etc that hospitals take in will be reduced, medicine is not complete job security.

yahvinah · Rookie Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 6 Location: Melbourne

I have way too much preparation to do, to even dignify your condescending reply with a lengthy retort.

the main idea is:

I have seen numbers FAR different from the ones that you quoted, decrepancies of 50-75k in some of them, more for others

The recession will in no way effect doctors in the same way that it will effect other occupations

There was no reason for your first response because i was agreeing with you, therefore making you come off to me as either an insecure/arrogant type or one without the ability to decipher simple statements, which is unfortunate, as you are going into a largely people oriented field,

Rolling Eyes

Ugh there is more, but I consider this kind of banter as missappropriation of my research/study time, so i bid you good day...

zala · Rookie Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1

Fact.

A first year doctor, Intern, BASE salary is LESS than that of a first year Registered Nurses BASE salary in the South Australian Public Health system, and I am sure the other states are on par.

It takes a while for the money to get good.

As for how much you earn, that depends on the hours you work, but also whether you work in the public system and or the private system. Whether your a physician or a surgeon, how senior you are... etc etc.. All these factors alter your $ figure significantly.